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Re: more discourse

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Posted by Olaf (140.102.2.20) on July 15, 2002 at 14:14:51:

In Reply to: Re: Senor B.S. please read posted by hvac on July 15, 2002 at 10:27:03:

I have to say I am really in twisted way enjoying this discourse. If people are debating stuff to this extent that little old me is doing, it can't be all bad.

Some more comments:

: WHY DO YOU THINK I AM WARNING PEOPLE OF THE AREA.

Actually, I really don't get it. Why would you be warning people about a club which we're trying to get going that you think is going to fail because of the economics of it? What is it to you? If the place basically stunk, was a total dive, the music sucked, a bunch of nasty and classless people were there groping the women on the dancefloor, and someone broke into your car while you were there, then I would understand. But I don't think any of the above are the case, no?

: BECAUSE I
: WAS THERE AND KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO NEED MORE THAN THE PEOPLE YOU HAD THERE. I WILL HONESTLY GIVE THIS PLACE A MONTH AT THE MAXIMUM. THEN IT'S ALL DONE. I KNOW THE STAFF
: THERE. LIKE ANY OTHER CLUB, IT IS BUSINESS. NO PEOPLE= NO
: MONEY. NO DRINKS=NO NIGHT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. AND YOU ALL KNOW IT TOO. IT IS MY OPINION THAT I CAN FREELY RELAY TO OTHERS AS THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT TOO BAD.

Again, why don't you let me worry about the economics of it and help out by telling people what you enjoyed about it if you were there, instead of ranting about how it's going to fail before it ever gets off the ground.

:I APPLAUD OLAF'S WORK ON TRYING AND I MEAN TRYING, TO GET ALL SALSA CLUBS IN BOSTON

Thank you, I appreciate it. There are others you should thank too, I just happen to most visible.

: BUT IT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN ESPECIALLY IN THE BIGGER NIGHTCLUBS IN BOSTON BECAUSE THEY
: CATER TO EVRYONE AND NOT JUST ONE CROWD THAT GOES OVERBOARD. THE ALL SALSA CROWD DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE THAT MUCH TO THE BAR. AND IS FAR AND FEW BETWEEN THE REGULAR CUSTOMERS WHICH OUT WEIGHS THEM IN ATTENDANCE. AND YES, THEY SPEND MONEY TO DRINK.

Again, an economic issue. You're right but there's some other important factors you need to consider. 1) we charge generally pretty high cover in order to make up for the lack of spending at the bar. 2) most serious salseros know that they need to support the bar if they want to keep coming to a place they like. 3) some nightclubs *want* to have the Salsa crowd there--they don't get drunk, puke all over the place, knife each other, and what not. A respectable clientelle on some nights can be worth a lot more to them than the extra bucks at the bar, and furthermore they don't lose that much anyway because the cost of being open is a lot less (less security, cleanup, etc.) 4) It's my experience that when you throw a good party, drinkers do show up and it all works out.

: JUST CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF. SOPHIAS WEDNESDAY NIGHT DOWNSTAIRS HOLDS 100 PEOPLE. BOAT CRUISE ADDING ALL DECKS MAYBE A LIL OVER 100 BUT NOT MORE THEN 150 FOR PEOPLE. LASTLY, THE ECKO LOUNGE 100 PEOPLE. SAYS IT ALL
: DOESN'T IT.

Sophia's basement is 150 (175, packed)
Sophia's 2nd floor (where we are now), 200 (300 packed)
--keep in mind the roofdeck becomes overflow.
Boat cruises, about 350 on the Indy (we've never had more than 250, average 150 last year)
Ekco, 80-100 downstairs

These are actual numbers, we count them. Also, not everyone is there at once. Some come early, some later.

: TRY THE OTHER PLACES THAT HOLD OVER 200 PEOPLE
: AND GUESS WHAT, YOU WONT MAKE IT. LIKE I SAID YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH ALL SALSA PEOPLE TO PULL IT OFF.

yet... maybe. Look at the scene. 5 years ago when I got into it, there was *some* Salsa at Ryles and Vincent's, and a few other uncertain places like Choices, Aurora, and Anthony's.

Now there's about 2 dozen instructors and Salsa seven nights in about 8-10 pretty happening clubs, including 2-3 or more mostly Salsa nights somewhere each week, the Globe calling all the time, requests from places for lessons, DJ's, bands, assistance in starting Salsa nights at their clubs, and all kinds of other things. And it's not just me, but a lot of people are putting a lot of work into all this.

Also, when we started the Wed. at Sophia's in the at the time "rat-hole" basement, we'd have maybe 30 people there on our good nights. Eventually it got to 50, then 100, and now that we moved upstairs, most nights there are 150-200 in attendance. We had 50+ on both nights so far at the Miami Club, not counting the people from the techno-night upstairs that came down later. Not too bad compared to how we started at Sophia's.

Anyway, of course you're entitled to your opinions, confusing as some of us think they are. It's not at all clear what your motivations are and why.

But I think the mere fact we're even having this argument is *really* what "says it all."

Best regards,
-Olaf

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Comments:
: I have to say I am really in twisted way enjoying this discourse. If people are debating stuff to this extent that little old me is doing, it can't be all bad. : Some more comments: : : WHY DO YOU THINK I AM WARNING PEOPLE OF THE AREA. : Actually, I really don't get it. Why would you be warning people about a club which we're trying to get going that you think is going to fail because of the economics of it? What is it to you? If the place basically stunk, was a total dive, the music sucked, a bunch of nasty and classless people were there groping the women on the dancefloor, and someone broke into your car while you were there, then I would understand. But I don't think any of the above are the case, no? : : BECAUSE I : : WAS THERE AND KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO NEED MORE THAN THE PEOPLE YOU HAD THERE. I WILL HONESTLY GIVE THIS PLACE A MONTH AT THE MAXIMUM. THEN IT'S ALL DONE. I KNOW THE STAFF : : THERE. LIKE ANY OTHER CLUB, IT IS BUSINESS. NO PEOPLE= NO : : MONEY. NO DRINKS=NO NIGHT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. AND YOU ALL KNOW IT TOO. IT IS MY OPINION THAT I CAN FREELY RELAY TO OTHERS AS THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT TOO BAD. : Again, why don't you let me worry about the economics of it and help out by telling people what you enjoyed about it if you were there, instead of ranting about how it's going to fail before it ever gets off the ground. : :I APPLAUD OLAF'S WORK ON TRYING AND I MEAN TRYING, TO GET ALL SALSA CLUBS IN BOSTON : Thank you, I appreciate it. There are others you should thank too, I just happen to most visible. : : BUT IT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN ESPECIALLY IN THE BIGGER NIGHTCLUBS IN BOSTON BECAUSE THEY : : CATER TO EVRYONE AND NOT JUST ONE CROWD THAT GOES OVERBOARD. THE ALL SALSA CROWD DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE THAT MUCH TO THE BAR. AND IS FAR AND FEW BETWEEN THE REGULAR CUSTOMERS WHICH OUT WEIGHS THEM IN ATTENDANCE. AND YES, THEY SPEND MONEY TO DRINK. : Again, an economic issue. You're right but there's some other important factors you need to consider. 1) we charge generally pretty high cover in order to make up for the lack of spending at the bar. 2) most serious salseros know that they need to support the bar if they want to keep coming to a place they like. 3) some nightclubs *want* to have the Salsa crowd there--they don't get drunk, puke all over the place, knife each other, and what not. A respectable clientelle on some nights can be worth a lot more to them than the extra bucks at the bar, and furthermore they don't lose that much anyway because the cost of being open is a lot less (less security, cleanup, etc.) 4) It's my experience that when you throw a good party, drinkers do show up and it all works out. : : JUST CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF. SOPHIAS WEDNESDAY NIGHT DOWNSTAIRS HOLDS 100 PEOPLE. BOAT CRUISE ADDING ALL DECKS MAYBE A LIL OVER 100 BUT NOT MORE THEN 150 FOR PEOPLE. LASTLY, THE ECKO LOUNGE 100 PEOPLE. SAYS IT ALL : : DOESN'T IT. : Sophia's basement is 150 (175, packed) : Sophia's 2nd floor (where we are now), 200 (300 packed) : --keep in mind the roofdeck becomes overflow. : Boat cruises, about 350 on the Indy (we've never had more than 250, average 150 last year) : Ekco, 80-100 downstairs : These are actual numbers, we count them. Also, not everyone is there at once. Some come early, some later. : : TRY THE OTHER PLACES THAT HOLD OVER 200 PEOPLE : : AND GUESS WHAT, YOU WONT MAKE IT. LIKE I SAID YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH ALL SALSA PEOPLE TO PULL IT OFF. : yet... maybe. Look at the scene. 5 years ago when I got into it, there was *some* Salsa at Ryles and Vincent's, and a few other uncertain places like Choices, Aurora, and Anthony's. : Now there's about 2 dozen instructors and Salsa seven nights in about 8-10 pretty happening clubs, including 2-3 or more mostly Salsa nights somewhere each week, the Globe calling all the time, requests from places for lessons, DJ's, bands, assistance in starting Salsa nights at their clubs, and all kinds of other things. And it's not just me, but a lot of people are putting a lot of work into all this. : Also, when we started the Wed. at Sophia's in the at the time "rat-hole" basement, we'd have maybe 30 people there on our good nights. Eventually it got to 50, then 100, and now that we moved upstairs, most nights there are 150-200 in attendance. We had 50+ on both nights so far at the Miami Club, not counting the people from the techno-night upstairs that came down later. Not too bad compared to how we started at Sophia's. : Anyway, of course you're entitled to your opinions, confusing as some of us think they are. It's not at all clear what your motivations are and why. : But I think the mere fact we're even having this argument is *really* what "says it all." : Best regards, : -Olaf

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